In this episode, I sit down with Dan DeGolier, CEO of Ascent CFO Solutions, to explore why Hiring Right is truly everything when building a thriving business. Ascent CFO Solutions, ranked No. 2813 on the 2024 Inc. 5000 list, has scaled successfully by being relentless about recruiting talent who align with both competence and culture. Dan shares how Hiring Right impacts every level of the organization—from financial strategy to team engagement—and why one mis-hire can hinder progress. You’ll gain practical guidance on how to interview, vet, and onboard team members who can elevate your company’s performance. Tune in to learn how making time for Hiring Right now can save time, money, and frustration later.
The interview features Dan DeGolier, founder of Ascent CFO Solutions, a fractional CFO firm based in Boulder and Denver, Colorado. The conversation centers around the critical role of hiring in the growth of businesses, particularly in professional services where the quality of personnel directly impacts the company’s reputation and ecosystem. Ascent CFO Solutions employs a team of skilled professionals who provide financial guidance and strategic assistance to high-growth companies, emphasizing the importance of hiring individuals who excel not just in technical skills but also in communication and adaptability. Dan DeGolier explains that successful consultants must thrive in chaotic environments, as their team members juggle multiple clients at once, typically between four and seven. This requirement calls for strong communicators who can set and manage expectations while consistently delivering outstanding results. The interview highlights the importance of under-promising and over-delivering, a principle that ensures both client satisfaction and project success. Dan DeGolier details how the hiring process at Ascent CFO Solutions includes rigorous questioning and meticulous diligence to find candidates who can handle the dynamic nature of consulting.
Gene Hammett, the host of Grow Think Tank, probes further into the unique attributes necessary for candidates to thrive in such an environment. Dan DeGolier underscores that it’s crucial to hire not only for technical skills but also for the temperament needed to manage multiple projects and client relationships effectively. He shares insights about the interview techniques used, including questions that reveal a candidate’s self-awareness and understanding of their strengths, exemplified by asking potential hires about their “superpower.” Throughout the discussion, Dan DeGolier reflects on his own journey in establishing the firm and the lessons learned from previous hiring mistakes, emphasizing how valuable it has been to identify what truly makes a great fractional CFO. He acknowledges that many candidates, despite possessing the right experience and qualifications, may not be suited for consulting roles due to the unpredictable nature of the work. This recognition has led to more in-depth assessments during the hiring process.
The conversation also touches upon the importance of technical skills assessments for accounting positions, where candidates are required to complete accounting and Excel tests to gauge their proficiency. For CFO roles, the focus shifts toward understanding candidates’ previous experiences, particularly in strategic roles, fundraising, and exits. Dan DeGolier reinforces that the caliber of hires directly correlates with the company’s ability to deliver on its promises, underscoring the stakes involved in the hiring process. Gene Hammett and Dan DeGolier also explore the integration of AI technologies in the consulting and financial services landscape. Dan DeGolier acknowledges that while they are experimenting with AI solutions for research and project management, there is much still to be developed in the accounting software space.
Towards the end of the interview, Dan DeGolier emphasizes that integrity and strong communication are the cornerstones of effective leadership in a consulting environment. He articulates that businesses in the professional services space are inherently reliant on their people, making hiring the right candidates paramount. Dan DeGolier’s insights provide not just a framework for hiring effectively but also a deeper understanding of how to build a resilient and responsive consulting firm that can adapt to the fast-paced demands of its clients. In conclusion, the discussion highlights the significance of a structured and thoughtful hiring process, particularly in industries where service delivery hinges on human talent. Dan DeGolier’s experiences serve as a guide for other leaders and organizations in navigating the complexities of recruiting the right individuals to drive growth and foster a strong culture.
Transcript:
Dan DeGolier: Uh, to be a good consultant, it means you have to be, you have to thrive in chaos. You have to thrive with having multiple people that you’re serving, right? So each of our CFOs and controllers and senior accountants and so forth are working with between, usually between four and seven different clients.
Dan DeGolier: And so they’ve got deliverables and expectations with each of those clients. So a so to hire, right? We are hiring people who aren’t just good at their jobs, but they’re good at, they’re incredibly good communicators, good, they’re good at setting expectations, and they’re good at, you know, under promising and over-delivering.
Dan DeGolier: They, they need to be very clear about setting expectations on, on deliverables and, and meeting the expectations of, of what they signed up for.
Announcer: Welcome to Grow Think Tank. This is the one and only place where you will get insight from the founders and the CEOs of the fastest growing privately held companies.
Jean Hett: I am the host. My name is Jean Hett. I help leaders and their teams navigate the defining moments of their growth. Are you ready to grow? Today, we talk about why hiring. Is so critical for your business. When you think about hiring people, when you think about the people that are, uh, you are asking to join you on the journey, do you have a good process?
Jean Hett: Do you have a solid way to, to really create the, the kind of hiring process you want? Well, why hiring right? Is everything is today’s topic with the founder of Ascent. CFO solutions. They’re on the ink list. They’ve got 40 employees and they’re, they’re a professional service company doing CFO, uh, partial and interim services.
Jean Hett: When I say that, I want you to think about really smart, talented people. That if you hire wrong, it’s really gonna be detrimental to the business. Now, your business may not be quite as critical as that, but I would bet that there’s many roles within your business that if you hire wrong, it’s gonna have a very negative affect on the business and, and the culture in general.
Jean Hett: Uh, not just performance, not just accounta, uh, profitability, but it’s just a, you know, it really impacts. Everything. So why hiring right? Is uh, everything is today’s conversation. What you’re gonna find inside here is the process at which, uh, Dan goes to hire, we’re gonna talk to Dan, go is, um, really someone I respect and what they’ve done.
Jean Hett: And so I’m really excited to share this interview with you. My name is Jean Hammett. I’m a CEO coach. We do executive coaching and leadership coaching and leadership development inside companies that are on, uh, growth mode. We know that there’s a certain amount of chaos that comes in. There’s a certain amount of of things shifting really fast.
Jean Hett: A stronger foundation for leadership is a critical component. As any company grows, you go through different shifts in identity and it’s really important to understand what those shifts are and to be ahead of them. As you continue to, uh, grow your own skills of leadership. Put your own mindset and awareness of that.
Jean Hett: If you’re curious about the work we do. Your next step would be to go to a free training. We ha we host every week. It’s training.correlation.com. Inside there, we will talk about how you can stop being the bottleneck of the business, get out of the day to day, create a business that grows without you, so that you can go on longer vacation so you can move to that chairman role eventually in your business.
Jean Hett: I’m not telling you to get you out of the business, but in that training we’re gonna unpack. Key foundational elements that our clients have gone through and will help you understand what’s next for yourself. Uh, just go to training.correlation.com to sign up today. Now here’s the interview with Dan. Dan, how are
Dan DeGolier: you?
Dan DeGolier: I’m doing great, gene. How are you doing today?
Jean Hett: Fantastic. We’re gonna have a great interview. Why? Um, hiring right is everything. Before we dive into that, tell us about your company Ascent, CFO Solutions.
Dan DeGolier: So Ascent, CFO is a fractional CFO firm. We’re headquartered in Boulder and Denver, Colorado. We help companies with growth, we help company, high growth companies with putting in place process and systems and, uh, cashflow forecasting and financial modeling and KPI dashboards, things like that to, uh, give them visibility into their business.
Dan DeGolier: And to help them strategically with their, with their growth, whether it’s, uh, fundraising or exit planning or debt financing or again, uh, process improvement sales, uh, compensation strategy, um, all kinds of, across all the areas that you would expect from a, a really qualified CFO we do on a part-time basis.
Jean Hett: I love all this. I love numbers. I love money, and I think that what you guys do probably is very needed because I don’t think a, most businesses below. 20 million don’t need a full-time CFO. So how’d you get into this, this area?
Dan DeGolier: Yeah, great question. I, um, I had taken a role, a full-time CFO role with a, with a company, uh, a software company that was raising its first round of venture capital.
Dan DeGolier: And as soon as I joined, I realized they really couldn’t afford a full-time CFO, nor did they need, uh, a full-time, a full-time person in that role. But they needed the skillset I was good at. They needed somebody to improve their reporting, improve, help them with the fundraise. Help them with, uh, KPI, uh, tracking all kinds of things like that.
Dan DeGolier: Um, but it really wasn’t, um, a, a full-time role. And, um, like I said, they didn’t, they couldn’t necessarily full, uh, afford a full-time salary. So that was kind of my light bulb moment, that it would be interesting if I could work for multiple companies as a, as a CFO and, and kind of spread my cost around.
Dan DeGolier: Um, and so I did that for several years on my own. I then realized I could scale this, I could, I could turn this into a, into a viable long-term business and, um, give other really qualified people jobs, um, across the spectrums from CFO down to accountant.
Jean Hett: I have so many questions I have here ’cause I work with fast growth companies and I feel like I’m beating this drum on KPIs and dashboards and things like that.
Jean Hett: And they’re like, well, you know, we just, we get by with what we have. But I’m like, you track one number. And it’s only one aspect of the business, and maybe it is a very important number, but there’s, there’s five or seven other areas. How do you get your employee, your, your companies that you work with to really look at the KPIs and, and lead and manage their companies using those KPIs?
Dan DeGolier: I mean, one of the question we, one question we ask is whether or not what they lose sleep over and if they’re sweating a payroll, uh, which a lot of founders have done. You, you know, we point out to them that we can pretty accurately track their future cash flows by understanding all of the data around their, their historicals and, and, and look at their pipeline, look across their, their, uh, expected spend across areas of, of payroll, et cetera.
Dan DeGolier: Um, and help them get strong visibility into that going forward. I mean, you know, we, we, you still come across founders who kind of track their success through their, what their bank account balance is. But, um, you know, that can blow up pretty quickly if they don’t collect their ar on time or they’re paying their AP too quickly, or they’re hiring too quickly ahead of their curve, ahead of their growth curve.
Dan DeGolier: There’s a lot of different factors there that, um, are that, that influence what their cashflow looks like, what their, and what their, and what restraints their growth as well.
Jean Hett: I am fascinated by this, but we came here to talk about another aspect of your own business, and I think a lot of people can relate to this ’cause it’s, I’m just imagining in order for you to hire right people, they need to have some experience.
Jean Hett: You’re not bringing in completely new people into the world of, of fractional CFOs. Is that correct? Correct. That’s correct.
Dan DeGolier: Yep. Yep.
Jean Hett: So they’re, they’re talented people. They’re probably very expensive. They probably have their own. You know, kind of ways to do things, but for you to scale your business, you’ve had to hire.
Jean Hett: Right. So walk us through what, what, what the starting point of hiring Right. For your business.
Dan DeGolier: Sure, sure. I mean, you know, we’ve all learned lessons. I’ve certainly learned my lessons on, on what makes a good fractional CFO or or accounting person. Um, and it’s not just the technical skills, right? It’s not just, okay, they’ve, they’ve raised capital.
Dan DeGolier: They’ve, they’ve helped companies exit their, you know, on the controller side that they’re good at closing the books and, and create and preparing analyses and things like that. It’s also that they’re really, to be a good consultant, it means you have to be, you have to thrive. Chaos. You have to thrive with having multiple people that you’re serving, right?
Dan DeGolier: So each of our CFOs and controllers and senior accountants and so forth are working with between, usually between four and seven different clients. And so they’ve got deliverables and expectations with each of those clients. So a so to hire, right? We are hiring people who aren’t just good at their jobs, but they’re good at, they’re incredibly good communicators, good.
Dan DeGolier: They’re good at setting expectations, and they’re good at. You know, under promising and overdelivering, they, they need to be very clear about setting expectations on, on deliverables and, and meeting the expectations of, of what they signed up for. Um, and so we ask a lot of questions. We do a lot of, uh, diligence, um, on, uh, a candidate before they join to see, uh, to really understand is that something, an area they’re gonna thrive?
Dan DeGolier: Because it’s not for everybody. There’s plenty of people who are a great CFO or a great controller, but they’re not. That’s, but they. Prefer the solid nature or consistent nature of going, you know, quote unquote to the same office, or at least working with the same people on a, on a day-to-day basis and, and kind of having one job.
Dan DeGolier: And that’s, and that’s great. That’s, that’s great for lots of people. That’s not necessarily gonna suit them well in a, in a consulting role like they would have at a sense CF.
Jean Hett: I’ve worked with a lot of companies just like you have, and I think a lot of cfo, CEOs are really terrible at hiring. Mm-hmm. One part of that is they have this optimism for they can turn someone around or they feel like they’ve got some spark or they got some experience, but when you talk to them after the fact, they’re like, oh, I missed these three things ’cause I just didn’t even ask.
Jean Hett: Right. Did you have to learn how to hire people?
Dan DeGolier: Absolutely. And I’ve also learned that, um, there’s people who are better at it than I am. So I’ve got a, a really talented recruiter on my team who, um, has a lot of experience in, in financing, accounting, recruiting. And so, you know, I work really closely with her as, as she identifies candidates.
Dan DeGolier: She asks all the right questions and then we run them through, uh, a couple other people, including myself. Before we hire them, we, we check references extensively. But we’ve had, we’ve kind of learned the hard way that not everybody is gonna be a good fit for, uh, for what we’re doing. So we, we’ve gotta ask those hard questions.
Jean Hett: Is there anything you do to test the technical skills of your people? Because I feel like they could, they, they should come in with a, a base knowledge of a lot of the technical financial cash flows and whatnot. Do you do anything to test them ahead of time?
Dan DeGolier: More so on the accounting side. So controllers, uh, accounting managers, senior accountants, financial analysts, uh, we have them take, uh, a couple different tests.
Dan DeGolier: One is an accounting test, um, to see, um, you know, if, if, if they, if they have a CPA certificate already, their chances are pretty good that they’re gonna do really well on it. But plenty of really qualified accountants have did not, did not opt to take the CPA exam and, and get their certificate. Um, and so, you know, especially with those, it’s great to see, have them take a, a pretty thorough accounting test and then an Excel test.
Dan DeGolier: Um, you know, Excel is, is, uh, is, is still thriving, um, along with, with Google Sheets and, um, having somebody who’s, you know, really. Really skilled in, in using Excel is important for those levels on the CFO side. Um, less so though, um, as far as, uh, tests, um, it’s more along the lines of, of really going deep with the, with the, the references and going deep with their experience and understanding their career progression.
Dan DeGolier: And, um, you know, like I’ve said before, things around their, their fundraising experience and their, and their exit experience, whether it’s buy side or sell side m and a. Um, we, we really like to understand. Um, uh, what they’ve done in, in a strategic role for the various companies they’ve worked for, a lot of ’em haven’t been consultants before.
Dan DeGolier: A lot of them have, have been, you know, the CFO of, of companies on a one-off basis. So, or, you know, a, a, a more standard CFO role, uh, working for one company. So it’s, you know, we wanna understand all of their experience and, and how that’s gonna, uh, convert to being a good, a really qualified fractional CFO.
Jean Hett: Now, I asked Dan about testing skills. I would encourage each of you to think about the critical roles for your company and be able to understand those roles so well that you can identify the skills that need to be tested ahead of time. And I say this because a lot of people will come back and say, we know I we’re having a tough enough time getting people just to apply if we put this test in place, well.
Jean Hett: This is the table stakes, if you will, of hiring someone, making sure that they have the functional skills. Unless you are bringing in people completely outta college or completely with no training whatsoever, and you have those systems in place, which most people don’t, you wanna make sure that they have some of the basic foundational skills for that role.
Jean Hett: We find that when you do this ahead of time and you make it a little bit harder, they have to jump through a few hoops. You actually will get better people because those that have those, those right skills for it will actually. Um, be better candidates and be better employees and stick around longer.
Jean Hett: Well, that’s my take on it. Uh, love to, to share more information. If you need more information about that, just send me an email on jean@jeanhammet.com and I can share with you some, some case studies and some details behind what we’ve done for clients in this particular area. And we’ll give it to you all for free.
Jean Hett: Just send me an email, jean@jeanhemmer.com. Now back to Dan, and you may not wanna let the cat outta of the bag here, but do you have a favorite interview question for your team?
Dan DeGolier: One of my favorites. I’m not sure it’s my absolute favorite, but I do, I like to ask people what their superpower is and that you can get, you can get some good insights as to how they, how they view themselves and what they consider themselves to be especially good at.
Jean Hett: And when you are listening to that, what is the, what is the, the real essence underneath that question? What is your superpower?
Dan DeGolier: It’s their own self-awareness.
Jean Hett: Okay.
Dan DeGolier: Right. Um, and, and knowing what, what makes them unique and what makes them especially qualified.
Jean Hett: I want to, uh, skip a little bit here. AI’s all the rage.
Jean Hett: I think it’s gonna be an incredible force in this. Is your company adopting. AI. And, and if so, how do you see that over the next three years? Changing things?
Dan DeGolier: Yeah, that’s a great question. I wish, I wish I had a, a precise answer for you as far as how it’s, it’s gonna change. Um, we are paying close attention to it.
Dan DeGolier: We’re using it on a, on a daily basis around, um, you know, using the L lms, um, and, you know, Gemini and chat, GPT, et cetera, um, to like, help us save time in, in presentations or doing research, excuse me, things of that nature. Um. I’ve also seen quite a few demos of, of, um, uh, software that where they’re trying to use AI to help with accounting.
Dan DeGolier: Some of it is, um, promising, but I think it’s not yet fully baked on the accounting side. But we, um, in our marketing automation and, and, uh, we’ve recently implemented HubSpot and we’re looking into, um, how we can create or leverage AI with some of our, our sales and marketing type things.
Jean Hett: We got here, Dan, talking about why hiring, right is everything.
Jean Hett: We didn’t answer that question, so I’d love for you to go back and just say why hiring right? Is everything as you, you’ve scaled this business to where it is.
Dan DeGolier: We’re a professional services firm. We people is our, are our product. Um, and so if a bad hire is, is costly and it hurt, harms our reputation, it harms it, it harms the, uh, the ecosystem, I think to some extent.
Dan DeGolier: So a. Hiring Right is, is absolutely critical because it’s, it drives our success. It’s, you know, if other types of companies, they can, you know, they can have a, you know, a, a maybe a, a person or two who’s a non-performer and they can, you know, it doesn’t, it doesn’t have the visibility. But in a professional services firm, it is what it is.
Dan DeGolier: Who we are. It is, it is how we present ourselves. It’s how we show up in the world is, is our people. And so it’s absolutely, um, you know, job one.
Jean Hett: Do you have anything that would be considered like trial basis or, or an approach to hiring that might be a little bit unique for your type business?
Dan DeGolier: Um, I think it’s the thorough diligence we do on people.
Dan DeGolier: It’s the testing we already mentioned. Um. The, the, the, the sort of questions we ask when we’re reference checking I think is, is also a big part of that. We, we try to drill deep, not just ask standard questions, but really try to, uh, to go deeper into who the, the people are. Um, we also, actually, there’s one other thing that I think is interesting too, is we, we have a particular a, a sort of, it’s, it’s not Meyers Briggs, it’s not disc, it’s um, sort of in the same realm.
Dan DeGolier: It’s called the core values index. And we have everybody take the CBI. To help them understand how they would engage with clients, what, how do they orient themselves, what gives them energy? Um, and so it ranks, uh, people across four categories of, of merchant, innovator, builder, and banker. And it helps us understand, it doesn’t necessarily eliminate a candidate from a role, but it allows us to ask further questions about their approach to what gives them satisfaction and, and how they, how they engage with clients.
Jean Hett: I, I love assessment test, and I have, I’ve never heard of the, the, the CVI. Clear Value index
Dan DeGolier: Core Core values. Core values, index
Jean Hett: core value. Okay. Um, and why did you choose that platform?
Dan DeGolier: Um, it just resonated with me the first time I saw it, um, to understand, um, what drives a, a person, what, what sort of motivates them, what, what they can, what they consider to be their core values.
Dan DeGolier: Um, so I’ll give one example. Like, so I’m a, a merchant innovator. Um, so it ranks the, the top two scores are your, are kind of how it describes you. So merchants, merchants get their, um, energy from, from building trust, building relationships, and um. Engaging, engaging with humans, um, whereas, um, you know, innovators are, are strong problem solvers.
Dan DeGolier: So I love to see, I love to see those two attributes in my CFOs, uh, with my controllers and other accountants. I, I like to see a strong, a banker. That means that their, their desk is probably more organized than mine and they, they get a lot of, uh, energy from things tying out and reconciliations working and, and getting, getting a process, you know, solving a, solving a problem that, that has a, a clear, um, accurate outcome.
Jean Hett: I, I love the fact that you have these systems that you hire people. What is a mistake that you made in early hiring that you could just share back with us? Don’t do, don’t do this. Avoid this.
Dan DeGolier: Yeah. Not doing, not doing, not asking the tough questions. Not, not doing enough diligence on people and realizing that they, they weren’t cut out.
Dan DeGolier: But, you know, we’ve had, you know, we’ve had people who, who didn’t last very long because once they realize that it’s a different sort of environment than they may have been used to working as a, uh, for a single company. Um, they didn’t, uh, they, they didn’t like the, the stress and, um, sort of switching costs of, of switching from, from client A to client B to client C and having to juggle that, juggle that sort of responsibility around, around serving multiple, um, multiple companies.
Dan DeGolier: Um, and so we, that’s why we spend a lot more time on that now because, uh, it’s not for everyone and, and people have. People have proven that it’s not, it’s not for them. So we wanted, we under, we wanna know that ahead of time, right? We want, we wanna make sure that we, we go really deep on that so we, we don’t make that mistake again.
Jean Hett: Now, Dan just said something about a mistake, about not asking the tough questions. Now I think it’s questions that he was meaning to, but I think it’s also just really laying out there what this job entails. If you are really honest and transparent with your people, you should tell them not just the good things, but the, the bad and the ugly, the bad, and the ugly of every job.
Jean Hett: Is there, it could be longer hours, it could be you’re expected to make decisions without much, uh, data or you, you could be expected to innovate or you could be expected to. We had some customer service people said, you’re, you’re expected to plug into your desk so that we can route cost to you. And they didn’t like that.
Jean Hett: So they would quit after a few months. Now, I say this to you and use that one example because you wanna tell people the real. Way the job works and you wanna do that before you hire them because if it shies them away, you just have saved yourself some money and some heartache. But if they lean in and say, I appreciate hard or this kind of hard, they’re accepting that they’re willing to do that.
Jean Hett: I find a lot of companies are afraid to do this. So if you combine what we talked about earlier is testing skills, and you actually tell them the good, the bad, and ugly of this position, you will have better candidates at the end and they will stay longer. We’ve seen this happen over and over with data, and we share this with you because we want you to have the kind of company that’s of your dreams and it starts, and a very important element that behind that is hiring.
Jean Hett: Right. So, back to Dan. Let’s wrap this up. Dan, with a quick view of your leadership principles, you’ve scaled up to 40 employees plus, um mm-hmm. What is the leadership principle that that keeps you growing and keeps this company growing?
Dan DeGolier: One that comes to mind immediately is integrity. Um, and, and high ex, you know, integrity and communication there.
Dan DeGolier: Maybe if I can pick two people that, um, do what they say they’re gonna do, um, they don’t sign up for things. They, they can’t, uh, deliverables, they can’t meet, um, on, on a timely basis. Um, and so I think that’s part of integrity. Communicate, communicating that is, is part of the integrity of, of meeting, the expectations of, uh, of what you sign up for.
Jean Hett: Great place to end this. Dan, I appreciate you being here, being a guest on the podcast.
Dan DeGolier: My pleasure. Jean, great to, great to meet you.
Jean Hett: Wow. Another great interview here on the podcast, helping you not just hire, right, but really understand what the process is for hiring so that you can do this better than you’re doing it today.
Jean Hett: If you think about your employees and you wanna make sure that everyone is aligned together, it starts with hiring. So hopefully you got something out of today. If there’s any way that I can help you or my team can help you, you wanna check out the free training, go to training.correlation.com and you can tune in to that right away.Jean Hett: It’s absolutely free and gives you a chance to, to test your way into what’s next for your company. When you think of growth and you think of leadership, think of growth. Anything as always, be encouraged. See you.
